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Post by thuddriver on Feb 7, 2017 4:49:49 GMT
Since this is my first time doing this I have to ask a few very basic questions. I assume that the goal is to fly each leg as close to the target time as possible. Each leg is fully described and easy to follow except for the landing phase. The rules use the term "landing circuit". That term is a bit vague in that there are several ways to land at an airport. So here are my questions: Do we file a flight plan and use FS ATC and allow ATC to provide landing instructions; or do we fly without using FS ATC and fly a typical VFR approach and landing (rectangular pattern)? By having this clearly stated it will allow all participants to fly each leg with complete uniformity, if that's the goal. Looking forward to a great rally.
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Post by Allan Lowson on Feb 7, 2017 8:24:29 GMT
The intention is that most flights are near enough VFR at the airports - give or take MS weather glitches. So a typical VFR approach and rectangular pattern would be the norm. There is an allowance in the target time for climb out and landing circuit, but it is difficult to allow for all aircraft types in estimating the allowance. Some are closer to the allowance than others.
Hope you enjoy the flights. The reason for the target is that some folk like to fly as close to the numbers for the aircraft, but there are always one or two who assume that VNE is a cruise speed. That caused some upset in the past amongst the purists, so the test flight is a chance to set your chosen cruise speed and the target times flow from that.
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 7, 2017 9:01:11 GMT
OK Allan, thanks for clarifying this for me. So the simplest way to fly these flights would be without using FS ATC.
Are there awards/prizes awarded at the conclusion of the rally?
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Rob F
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
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Post by Rob F on Feb 7, 2017 9:33:28 GMT
Hi ,
Hope that you enjoy your first GAAR.
ATC is not advised for two reasons. Many of the airfields that we visit during the event do not have ATC, they are report your intentions and see and be seem.
Second is that your departure and arrival runways are listed on your flight plan, you are meant to use these runways as listed and follow all en-route information on the flight plan for each leg.
It is not mandatory to fly a circuit before landing. You may find on some approaches that you may be fairly well aligned with the landing runway, if so, it is permissible to fly a straight in approach. Each pilot is the captain of his ship so the diccissions are up to you.
Everybody gets first prize which is to get the most enjoyment and fun from the rally as you can......:-)
If you have any more questions please ask and have a fun rally.
Rob
GAAR Flight Planning
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 7, 2017 10:28:36 GMT
OK guys, I'm all set now. Let the games begin!
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Post by davidrevans on Feb 7, 2017 16:32:35 GMT
I have found that flying a simple pattern allows me to get closest to target time. I almost always arrive EARLY , so by flying a lap around the field , longer or shorter downwind an final legs , I can adjust the touch down time closer to target time. Enjoy the flights!
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 8, 2017 3:03:01 GMT
"...I can adjust the touch down time closer to target time." Well that now causes me to ask this question. We are required to stop the clock at the end of the landing roll (not touch down time), so what is defined as the end of the landing roll? Is it as soon as I can bring the aircraft to a safe stop on the runway, or is it just as the aircraft starts to turn off the runway onto the taxiway? Which of these is "target time" based upon?
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Post by davidrevans on Feb 8, 2017 4:42:02 GMT
I have always equipped my GAAR aircraft with the FTime panel timer which starts at 35Knts on take off and stops at 35Knts on landing roll out. I mount it in a location were it is easily visible. I try to set down on the numbers and if I need too can let it roll out to add a few seconds or slam on the breaks an try to get it close. It is still hard to get a perfect time. I do not go be starting roll to complete stop. I post the FTimer Time. Before I used the timer I would use the clock and start at take off roll and stop time when wheels touched the runway. I flown these for awhile and never finished higher than 3rd but enjoy the screen shots sent in and the chatter on the forum ,some great imagination at work! Have fun and enjoy.
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 8, 2017 5:46:08 GMT
Sounds like a plan. But I would also like to know from the GAAR officials what criteria was used to determine the end time. Someone at GAAR had determined when to stop the clock after landing in coming up with the target time. I'm hoping they will share that information with me. I want to fly this rally by the rules and the rules only state to stop the clock at the end of the landing roll. But as I pointed out earlier that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
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Post by gooneybird565 on Feb 8, 2017 8:44:58 GMT
As per the official Rules page :
:Quote:
13. All PIREPs are to have times submitted in minutes rounded to two decimal places. For example, a flight of 1 hr 2 mins 56 secs would be submitted as 62.93 mins. It is recommended that you download and use Tom Goodrickâs FTime from the link on the "GAAR Downloads" page. It records time from when the aircraft reaches 30 knots on takeoff until it decelerates to below 30 knots on landing. Alternatively, you may record the time using a panel clock, but convert the seconds to decimal minutes. i.e. 30:45 on a clock would be 30.75 minutes. The use of external clocks, watches, etc, is prohibited. All timers must be internal to the flight simulator.
:Unquote:
The easiest way is to download and install this timer in the aircraft you intend to use for the rally, as the measure is "automated".
Or you can also start your chrono from t/o roll start and stop it at landing roll stop (on runways used), but allow some tests on a flight to check how you come with the target time.
Blue skies
Philippe
GAAR 025
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 8, 2017 10:10:02 GMT
Thank you Philippe for the quote because I think it answers my question: the clock starts at 30 KIAS on take off and stops on reaching <30KIAS on landing. I can work with that.
Cheers,
Ken
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Rob F
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Rob F on Feb 8, 2017 10:20:09 GMT
The GAAR has been running for around 20 years and to the best of my knowledge the timing has never really been updated.
I am not sure that we even had the downloadable timer in the early GAAR,s
The GAAR is a "Let's have Fun" event, as you will discover once the event officially starts with comments and screen shots going back and forth in the forums.
The idea behind displaying your leg times is to see how close you can get to your time with the normal operation of your aircraft, so you are competing against yourself and your ability as the pilot, nobody flying the event really cares if you arrive late or early.
I myself do not even look at my leg times till after I fly the leg, I do not re- fly the leg if my timing is out, I just submit the time it took me.
If you are not happy with your leg time, you may fly the leg as many times as you wish to improve your time but please only submit ONE Pirep per leg.
Now back to your original question, Philippe is right if you are using the download timer, if you are happy with the leg time then submit that time.
If you are using your aircrafts clock and are happy with your time submit the time from Brakes Release for take- off to Wheels Stopped on your landing roll "on the runway",
Hope that anwers your question and that you have lots of fun and enjoyment fly the GAAR.
Cheers and happy flights
Rob
GAAR Flight Planning
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Post by thuddriver on Feb 8, 2017 11:17:30 GMT
Thanks Rob for the added clarity. I know that I'm only competing with myself and that's fine. For me half the fun is trying to "hit my mark" on each leg. I installed the referenced timer on my DC-3 and it works as advertised but I found that the timer starts and ends at 35KIAS, not 30 as stated elsewhere. I won't re-fly any of the legs just to get a better time because as you said, this is a fun event. I'll probably use the timer's time but I appreciate you answering my question regarding the landing roll. Brakes off to dead stop on the runway is what I thought the answer would be because it makes sense. I anticipate having a lot of fun with this event.
Regards,
Ken
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Rob F
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Rob F on Feb 8, 2017 12:08:27 GMT
No worries Ken, we are happy to help out.
Have a great time with the GAAR.
Rob
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Post by davidrevans on Feb 8, 2017 15:04:13 GMT
Reading your questions again Rob , I always thought they figured the target times by using the qualification flight( point to point) then adding a 500Fpm.climb out to cruise level of that flight and a 500Fpm decent rate. That is how I figured the judges came up with the times . I also enter two aircraft , both different types an speed range , fly the routes only once and the time I get is what I post. fly the slowest first, this gives me a feel for the winds aloft and if I need to add or remove a little manifold pressure on the other aircraft to arrive closer to the time. A gauge you can get from DC3 Airways page is a Real wind gauge , I have used it on past aircraft . It shows the direction an speed of winds aloft at your flight level. Easy to read and a handy tool to help with head or tail wind . Part of the fun for me is picking the aircraft, then modifying the panel by adding the FTimer , moving gauges so they scan better for Ifr flights, or like the Caribou the only panel was for turboprop engines and I am flying the C4 with radial piston engine , took me weeks to find gauges for Mp. and prop rpm. that would work right.
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